Carrier and Interceptors
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latribuneludique
Mack_me_Bucko
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Carrier and Interceptors
This question came up on BGG, and I'm passing it along to here.
A carrier launches its six Interceptor tokens, and the player only then uses those tokens (and drift) to merely block out tiles that the enemy cannot transit or fire through. The tokens aren't actually ever activated with the two special dice for attacks, they just drift and fill up space.
Can they be simply fired upon, and eliminated by any enemy ship, since they have zero hull, and no shields? Otherwise, the Interceptor tokens function as very overpowered sentinels that restrict all space they occupy.
To further clarify: the person asking is playing them as spawns of the Carrier, then hiding his Carrier in a Gas Cloud. He lets the Interceptors drift or 'hitch rides' with other ships, yet doesn't activate them with the two Special Dice roll. They can then support attacks, as well as block tiles they sit on.
Another addition. After he has parked his Carrier in the Gas Cloud, he continues to spawn more Interceptor squadrons up until his six are deployed, even if any get destroyed.
A carrier launches its six Interceptor tokens, and the player only then uses those tokens (and drift) to merely block out tiles that the enemy cannot transit or fire through. The tokens aren't actually ever activated with the two special dice for attacks, they just drift and fill up space.
Can they be simply fired upon, and eliminated by any enemy ship, since they have zero hull, and no shields? Otherwise, the Interceptor tokens function as very overpowered sentinels that restrict all space they occupy.
To further clarify: the person asking is playing them as spawns of the Carrier, then hiding his Carrier in a Gas Cloud. He lets the Interceptors drift or 'hitch rides' with other ships, yet doesn't activate them with the two Special Dice roll. They can then support attacks, as well as block tiles they sit on.
Another addition. After he has parked his Carrier in the Gas Cloud, he continues to spawn more Interceptor squadrons up until his six are deployed, even if any get destroyed.
Dernière édition par Mack_me_Bucko le Lun 16 Oct - 13:21, édité 1 fois
Mack_me_Bucko- Messages : 109
Date d'inscription : 14/09/2017
Age : 62
Localisation : St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
The rules are not very clear but, yes, you can destroy Interceptors with standard attack dice : you just need to inflict 1 degat point to destroy one token.
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
And Destroyer alone can destroy 2 interceptors with one red dice with his spécial rule (don't know the english name)
Ainock- Messages : 371
Date d'inscription : 04/12/2015
Localisation : Lille
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
The "problem" (if we can call this a problem) is that the carrier can stay protected in the gas cloud, and continue to spawn interceptors non-stop, making it very hard to destroy.
Le "pb" c'est que le porte-nefs peut rester planqué dans un nuage de gaz pendant toute la partie, et spawner des intercepteurs non-stop (qui bloquent toutes les attaques et supportent les autres vaisseaux), ce qui fait que la porte-nefs est hyper dur à détruire.
@Didier (CG) ? Any idea to counter this ? Une idée de contre ?
Le "pb" c'est que le porte-nefs peut rester planqué dans un nuage de gaz pendant toute la partie, et spawner des intercepteurs non-stop (qui bloquent toutes les attaques et supportent les autres vaisseaux), ce qui fait que la porte-nefs est hyper dur à détruire.
@Didier (CG) ? Any idea to counter this ? Une idée de contre ?
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
a possible solution could be to concentrate on the rest of the fleet.
It also depends on the mission objective.
It also depends on the mission objective.
Tancrède- Rex Lugdunensis 2019
- Messages : 399
Date d'inscription : 03/01/2017
Localisation : Arras (62)
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
And don't worry that you must spend attack dice to deploy your squadrons instead of firing against the ennemy...
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
I'd still like to get a ruling on this from Didier if possible.
1. Is the Carrier, if hidden inside a Gas Cloud, even able to 'spawn' Interceptors while staying hidden? I would say that the 'Special Weapon' is the Interceptors, and a Special cannot be used from inside a Gas Cloud.
2. If a Destroyer attacks a square with two Interceptor tokens, both tokens are destroyed? Or must one target each token individually? The same would apply for a Cruiser attacking three tokens, too.
3. When the Carrier deploys an Interceptor token, they do it in their own square, or an adjacent one. That is, they cannot place the token all the way across the game board.
1. Is the Carrier, if hidden inside a Gas Cloud, even able to 'spawn' Interceptors while staying hidden? I would say that the 'Special Weapon' is the Interceptors, and a Special cannot be used from inside a Gas Cloud.
2. If a Destroyer attacks a square with two Interceptor tokens, both tokens are destroyed? Or must one target each token individually? The same would apply for a Cruiser attacking three tokens, too.
3. When the Carrier deploys an Interceptor token, they do it in their own square, or an adjacent one. That is, they cannot place the token all the way across the game board.
Mack_me_Bucko- Messages : 109
Date d'inscription : 14/09/2017
Age : 62
Localisation : St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Mack_me_Bucko a écrit:I'd still like to get a ruling on this from Didier if possible.
He seems quite busy currently...
1. Is the Carrier, if hidden inside a Gas Cloud, even able to 'spawn' Interceptors while staying hidden? I would say that the 'Special Weapon' is the Interceptors, and a Special cannot be used from inside a Gas Cloud.
My own point of view is that it's not a special weapon but special rules. So I feel that the Carrier should be able to spawn Interceptors inside a Gas Cloud.
2. If a Destroyer attacks a square with two Interceptor tokens, both tokens are destroyed? Or must one target each token individually? The same would apply for a Cruiser attacking three tokens, too.
Interceptors are regular class 0 ships. So they may be attacked as regular ships : with a single die, a Destroyer can destroy 2 tokens in the same sector.
A cruiser with multipoint weapons can only make 2 attacks so only 2 tokens may be destroyed in the same sector.
3. When the Carrier deploys an Interceptor token, they do it in their own square, or an adjacent one. That is, they cannot place the token all the way across the game board.
Only results can deploy a token, you choose an adjacent sector of the carrier (depends of the used result). Hopefully, you can't deploy the token anywhere on the board.
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
I think Didier is worn out from Essen!
Mack_me_Bucko- Messages : 109
Date d'inscription : 14/09/2017
Age : 62
Localisation : St. Louis, Missouri, USA
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Mack_me_Bucko a écrit:I'd still like to get a ruling on this from Didier if possible.
Sorry for the late answer, I try to come back ...
Mack_me_Bucko a écrit:1. Is the Carrier, if hidden inside a Gas Cloud, even able to 'spawn' Interceptors while staying hidden? I would say that the 'Special Weapon' is the Interceptors, and a Special cannot be used from inside a Gas Cloud.
Indeed, but as you use normal attack dice, Interceptor can also be seen as weapon. So it can be used from a Gaz cloud but not from Asteroid field (no weapon there).
Mack_me_Bucko a écrit:2. If a Destroyer attacks a square with two Interceptor tokens, both tokens are destroyed? Or must one target each token individually? The same would apply for a Cruiser attacking three tokens, too.
A token is a normal target. Only one target per die. You need on die to destroy one squadron, whatever the power of the attack (only 1 is needed to destroy a squadron). This is the purpose of the double attack of the destroyer. With the special ability 'multi point weapon" he can target 2 squadron with one die. And destroy both of them.
Mack_me_Bucko a écrit:3. When the Carrier deploys an Interceptor token, they do it in their own square, or an adjacent one. That is, they cannot place the token all the way across the game board.
They deploy squadron in adjacent square, in the indicated direction.
Hope it helps.
Didier (CG)- Messages : 241
Date d'inscription : 02/12/2015
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Didier (CG) a écrit:Hope it helps.
Bah oui mais non ...
Roolz a écrit:The "problem" (if we can call this a problem) is that the carrier can stay protected in the gas cloud, and continue to spawn interceptors non-stop, making it very hard to destroy.
Le "pb" c'est que le porte-nefs peut rester planqué dans un nuage de gaz pendant toute la partie, et spawner des intercepteurs non-stop (qui bloquent toutes les attaques et supportent les autres vaisseaux), ce qui fait que la porte-nefs est hyper dur à détruire.
@Didier (CG) ? Any idea to counter this ? Une idée de contre ?
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
positioning the dreadnought in this gas cloud and firing all this time with long rang special weapon.
Positionner le dreadnought dans ce nuage de gaz et tirer tout le temps avec l'arme à longue portée.
Positionner le dreadnought dans ce nuage de gaz et tirer tout le temps avec l'arme à longue portée.
Tancrède- Rex Lugdunensis 2019
- Messages : 399
Date d'inscription : 03/01/2017
Localisation : Arras (62)
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Tancrède a écrit:positioning the dreadnought in this gas cloud and firing all this time with long rang special weapon.
Positionner le dreadnought dans ce nuage de gaz et tirer tout le temps avec l'arme à longue portée.
Je comprends pas. Tu peux préciser ton idée ?
I don't understand, can you explain your idea ?
The "problem" (if we can call this a problem) is that the carrier can stay protected in the gas cloud, and continue to spawn interceptors non-stop, making it very hard to destroy.
Le "pb" c'est que le porte-nefs peut rester planqué dans un nuage de gaz pendant toute la partie, et spawner des intercepteurs non-stop (qui bloquent toutes les attaques et supportent les autres vaisseaux), ce qui fait que la porte-nefs est hyper dur à détruire.
Est-ce si ultime ? Cela nécessite à chaque fois un dés d'attaque pour déployer un escadron qui ne sera en plus pas forcément à proximité de l'action. Et cela expose quand même le porte-nefs aux dégâts potentiels d'un nuage de gaz. C'est peut-être bien pour une bataille rangée mais dans le cadre d'un scénario, je demande à voir.
Is this so powerful ? You need one attack die to deploy a squadron which will not necessarily be close to the action. In addition, the carrier can be dammaged by the gaz cloud... This tactic can be usefull in a standard battle but not for a scenario.
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Le nuage de gaz génère des dégâts?? J'ai zappé ça dans les règles. C'est marqué ou?
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Ah OK, sinon ça changeait effectivement la donnelatribuneludique a écrit:Arg ! Non, j'ai confondu avec la tempête gamma...
Donc perso je trouve toujours que le combo "porte nefs + nuage de gaz" est balaise.
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Pour moi le porte-nef seul ne suffit pas à gagner et même si il se planque dans un nuage de gaz en envoyant ses escadrons (certes nuisibles mais pas invulnérables).
Certes cela lui procure un dé de bouclier grauit mais encore faut il obtenir le bon résultat pour contrer l'attaque.
Sur une attaque massive venant de plusieurs secteurs adjacent il souffrira comme n'importe quel autre vaisseau.
De plus pour gagner l'adversaire peut très bien se concentrer sur la destruction de la flotte à l'exception du porte nef cela devrait suffire pour gagner la partie sauf si les conditions de victoires sont propres au scénario (et dans ce cas la porte-nef devra peut être sortir de sa zone de confort pour gagner).
Certes cela lui procure un dé de bouclier grauit mais encore faut il obtenir le bon résultat pour contrer l'attaque.
Sur une attaque massive venant de plusieurs secteurs adjacent il souffrira comme n'importe quel autre vaisseau.
De plus pour gagner l'adversaire peut très bien se concentrer sur la destruction de la flotte à l'exception du porte nef cela devrait suffire pour gagner la partie sauf si les conditions de victoires sont propres au scénario (et dans ce cas la porte-nef devra peut être sortir de sa zone de confort pour gagner).
Tancrède- Rex Lugdunensis 2019
- Messages : 399
Date d'inscription : 03/01/2017
Localisation : Arras (62)
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Ne pas oublier non plus que dans un nuage on ne peut ni soutenir ni être soutenu... Je ne sais pas si c'est si puissant que cela. Ou tout du moins pourquoi cela serait si fort avec un porte-nef...
Ainock- Messages : 371
Date d'inscription : 04/12/2015
Localisation : Lille
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Ainock a écrit:Ne pas oublier non plus que dans un nuage on ne peut ni soutenir ni être soutenu... Je ne sais pas si c'est si puissant que cela. Ou tout du moins pourquoi cela serait si fort avec un porte-nef...
Comme le Porte-Nef a une puissance de feu de 0, cela n'a pas vraiment d'importance...
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Comme le Porte-Nef a une puissance de feu de 0, cela n'a pas vraiment d'importance... Rolling Eyes
Si. Il ne peut pas déclencher l'attaque des squadrons qu'il aurait déployé précédemment, puisque Didier vient d'écrire plus haut que les chasseurs sont déployés sur des cases adjacentes.
La vraie puissance du Porte nef selon moi c'est son attaque spéciale qui potentiellement fait 12 dégâts (surtout si notre porte-nef est planqué dans un nuage )... et à juste pour effet de renvoyer les chasseurs sur la case du porte-nef... au lieu de l'obliger à les redéployer.
Ainock- Messages : 371
Date d'inscription : 04/12/2015
Localisation : Lille
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Ainock a écrit:Si. Il ne peut pas déclencher l'attaque des squadrons qu'il aurait déployé précédemment, puisque Didier vient d'écrire plus haut que les chasseurs sont déployés sur des cases adjacentes.
Ok mais ils n'ont pas forcément vocation à rester en soutien du porte-nefs, là je pense que c'est une situation plutôt anecdotique.
La vraie puissance du Porte nef selon moi c'est son attaque spéciale qui potentiellement fait 12 dégâts (surtout si notre porte-nef est planqué dans un nuage )... et à juste pour effet de renvoyer les chasseurs sur la case du porte-nef... au lieu de l'obliger à les redéployer.
Une puissance qui n'est pas spécialement impactée par l'utilisation du nuage de gaz ou pas ceci dit.
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
latribuneludique a écrit:Ainock a écrit:Ne pas oublier non plus que dans un nuage on ne peut ni soutenir ni être soutenu... Je ne sais pas si c'est si puissant que cela. Ou tout du moins pourquoi cela serait si fort avec un porte-nef...
Comme le Porte-Nef a une puissance de feu de 0, cela n'a pas vraiment d'importance...
En fait si, il a beau avoir une PF de 0 il peut déclencher des attaques et ainsi bénéficier des attaques de soutien adjacentes à la cible.
Bien entendu depuis le nuage de gaz le porte nef perd cette faculté puisque ne peut plus bénéficier du soutien.
Le porte nef n'est pas invulnérable mais constitue comme tout vaisseau de cette catégorie un danger avec lequel il faut compter.
En bataille rangée je m'attaquerai en priorité au reste de la flotte si le porte nef reste caché, et en fonction du scénario je doute que planquer le porte nef systématiquement dans un nuage de gaz soit la solution la plus pertinente.
A voir, souvent la première victime d'un combat est le plan.
Tancrède- Rex Lugdunensis 2019
- Messages : 399
Date d'inscription : 03/01/2017
Localisation : Arras (62)
Re: Carrier and Interceptors
Using the PDF uploaded by Latribuneludique, I have made a rough translation into English:
Knowledge Database: Interceptor Bays
A ship with this ability can deploy up to 6 Interceptor Squadrons. If the Squadrons are destroyed, they can be deployed again. If the vessel equipped with Interceptor Bays is destroyed or leaves the Combat Zone without its Interceptor Squadrons, they are removed from the Combat Zone.
Deployment of Interceptor Squadrons:
The Squadrons are deployed with the results of the red Dice.
1 Die = 1 Squadron on 1 Sector as indicated by the Die
The Squadrons can be deployed directly on a Sector occupied by allied ships but not on that of the vessel equipped with Interceptor Bays itself.
Attack:
Using two Special Dice results, the vessel equipped with Interceptor Bays instructs all Squadrons to attack.
Each Squadron can attack a different target on an adjacent Sector.
It is a Special Attack (no support, no blocking and no enemy counter-attack possible), each Squadron inflicts 1 point of damage to its target.
Interceptor Squadrons
Interceptor Squadrons are represented by tokens.
Impulse: At the beginning of your turn start, each Squadron can move to an adjacent Sector without using a movement Dice result.
Squadrons can move to different areas even if they are starting from the same Sector.
The Squadrons are Class 0, which means that you can deploy as many as you want on the Sector. They do not count for victory conditions.
Although they suffer the effects of special areas, all those whose effect depends on Class Points (such as Asteroid Fields or Gamma Storms) have no effect on them.
A Squadron is a target in the same way as other ships: the enemy must attack it to destroy it.
Squadrons cannot use Dice results, which means that:
Except for their Impulse movement, they move only if other vessels on their Sector move. The Squadrons can accompany the ships of the main fleet as well as those of an allied fleet.
They do not attack on their own but can support any attack. In support, a Squadron inflicts 1 point of damage.
They can support ships of a Class superior or equal to 1 located on their Sector. Which means that a Carrier escorted by its 6 Squadrons can use one Attack dice and thus benefit from a standard attack inflicting 6 damage.
They take advantage of the Bridge Dice if other ships (of a Class superior or equal to 1) on their Sector respond to the opponent's attack (Shield, Withdrawal, Counter-attack).
The Squadron tokens on the board:
Enemy ships can cross a Sector occupied by any Squadron tokens, but at the end of their turn they cannot be in a Sector occupied by any Squadrons.
Squadron tokens do not block Sighting (for ranged attacks or Special Weapons).
Based on the elements collected by "jetpacker" on the Fleet Commander Forum and amended by the author himself, these rules are being tested and are not official.
Knowledge Database: Interceptor Bays
A ship with this ability can deploy up to 6 Interceptor Squadrons. If the Squadrons are destroyed, they can be deployed again. If the vessel equipped with Interceptor Bays is destroyed or leaves the Combat Zone without its Interceptor Squadrons, they are removed from the Combat Zone.
Deployment of Interceptor Squadrons:
The Squadrons are deployed with the results of the red Dice.
1 Die = 1 Squadron on 1 Sector as indicated by the Die
The Squadrons can be deployed directly on a Sector occupied by allied ships but not on that of the vessel equipped with Interceptor Bays itself.
Attack:
Using two Special Dice results, the vessel equipped with Interceptor Bays instructs all Squadrons to attack.
Each Squadron can attack a different target on an adjacent Sector.
It is a Special Attack (no support, no blocking and no enemy counter-attack possible), each Squadron inflicts 1 point of damage to its target.
Interceptor Squadrons
Interceptor Squadrons are represented by tokens.
Impulse: At the beginning of your turn start, each Squadron can move to an adjacent Sector without using a movement Dice result.
Squadrons can move to different areas even if they are starting from the same Sector.
The Squadrons are Class 0, which means that you can deploy as many as you want on the Sector. They do not count for victory conditions.
Although they suffer the effects of special areas, all those whose effect depends on Class Points (such as Asteroid Fields or Gamma Storms) have no effect on them.
A Squadron is a target in the same way as other ships: the enemy must attack it to destroy it.
Squadrons cannot use Dice results, which means that:
Except for their Impulse movement, they move only if other vessels on their Sector move. The Squadrons can accompany the ships of the main fleet as well as those of an allied fleet.
They do not attack on their own but can support any attack. In support, a Squadron inflicts 1 point of damage.
They can support ships of a Class superior or equal to 1 located on their Sector. Which means that a Carrier escorted by its 6 Squadrons can use one Attack dice and thus benefit from a standard attack inflicting 6 damage.
They take advantage of the Bridge Dice if other ships (of a Class superior or equal to 1) on their Sector respond to the opponent's attack (Shield, Withdrawal, Counter-attack).
The Squadron tokens on the board:
Enemy ships can cross a Sector occupied by any Squadron tokens, but at the end of their turn they cannot be in a Sector occupied by any Squadrons.
Squadron tokens do not block Sighting (for ranged attacks or Special Weapons).
Based on the elements collected by "jetpacker" on the Fleet Commander Forum and amended by the author himself, these rules are being tested and are not official.
Mack_me_Bucko- Messages : 109
Date d'inscription : 14/09/2017
Age : 62
Localisation : St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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